BOINC Games

I'm confused that you're acting so strongly about this. not because a disdain for Russia right now isn't understandable, but because you sit at the top of the leaderboard for RakeSearch.

You are all spectacular!!! Keep suggestions coming!!! And if you are able and willing contribute when you can....

@Skills is probably a true Boinc idiot and does seem to care and take all of these suggegetions to help adjust decent feedback into the update into the website...

I think beyond the recent and maybe short term undesirable project selection, (don't run it if you want, and I hope it is reduced in priority until world politics change... But also keeping up with the diminishing world politics and Boinc projects is $ costly!!!)

These Boinc Challenge websites are expensive to run and I think we have all experienced once the Admin and monitoring oversite cost become great and even all of our favorite STAT tracking websites start to ask for more funds, we should all pony up some!!! ???

I am and AnandTech teamer, but starting to learn about how much time, money, and energy these websites take. I'd tell you all to ..... .... maybe contribut more to be backend infrastructure? I am starting to as I only started down this bat-shit crazy path in 2017. It is likely not enough once you go beyond one box worth of hardware...

Love you all, but if you can watch "Convoy". Sorry that is my default for multi-generational movie... It really does f up the 20 year olds...

bluestang wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:08 pm
(Although I noticed FB is copying some of BG's ideas like Individual Stats and Standings lol)

Hi

May I just interject here.

I was asking the FB admin (Sebastien) maybe 2 or 3 years ago to incorporate what I termed a "Drivers Championship" into the FB stats standings, so that individual members would be ranked, as well as teams.

So, as much as I congratulate BG for making these Challenges available, (and not making it a closed shop) I would prefer to think that FB was nurturing a few good ideas that took a while to implement. And BG has done the same thing, as they obviously also noted that FB was only dealing with teams and not individuals.

Sometimes, great ideas can spring up in different ways at different times from dfferent people...so it really isn't a question of "copying".

(Former FB Sprint Committee members who are on *this* forum might even validate what I have said, as various private discussions took place, to help improve FB).

best regards
Tim

Inner Battle

OK a few comments,

- I do NOT speak for my teammates or anyone else by ME!

- I should have just went to the TaaT discord and said my peace (but I just reacted) since there is not a lot of people reading this and it's mostly XS and TaaT posting I'll keep it going here. This has nothing to do with @Skillz effort or TaaTs effort and/or supporting this site with $ but all these things are commendable, the effort is major and the support is needed. Special thanks for the efforts they are top notch /sv.

Ian&Steve C. wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:00 pm I'm confused that you're acting so strongly about this. not because a disdain for Russia right now isn't understandable, but because you sit at the top of the leaderboard for RakeSearch.

Well WTF, i'm not just in the top top of Rake, give me some credit, take a look at most Russian projects, you will see me there in 2023.

...and that's where this is coming from, it's an inner battle i'm having but does have BG support running thru it.

A birdy told me in mid january that we were losing ground on BG because some people were taking the "low hanging fruit" or called "russian projects" and at that point it I had to wrestle with a "Inner Battle".

Now I will start this off with saying I have always loved competition and it's no different here. I run boinc for personal reasons, I ran FB and BG for the action, a competition with like minded individuals. Competition helps you get to know your team and the competition and if done right builds bonds beyond. And i like it!

I have always supported BG and still do but if you think that, FU - if you don't like it don't run it is the answer, then you don't know the question. What is the goal of BG? Seems so far like a FB clone without the massive amounts of sprints. Some good implementation that Seb is copying but all you need to do is have TSBT join BG and Seb decide to cut the amount of sprints, then make them the same day as the BG sprints, then they are the same. That isn't such a stretch is it? Who survives that, I would say the site with the long standing rep. But i digress.

Back to Russian programs and the Inner Struggle. I made a decision when Russia invaded Ukraine to stop running russian projects, my choice. If your NOT running all the programs that these boinc competition sites put up then you CAN'T Compete. Take a look at the stats, it tells the whole story. Right before this sprint XS was in first place in the team section and I am 2nd in the Indy points section. This will not be the case at the end of this sprint, the numbers have swung by almost 25 points based on this sprint and it affects both team and indy points. I don't think this logic can be contradicted. So this whole russian project "personal choice" issue does affect everything. As a team and as a individual you cannot survive here without running russian projects.

If I/we can't be competitive here then why even run BG, why not just do my/your own thing. Not such a easy question for me because of 2 reasons, I love what BG is trying to accomplish but now it's limiting my ability to compete & I choose NOT to support russian projects. I don't have an answer for this. Another tough situation is that I have become friends with Skillz and co. plus gained respect for them and their team which makes this even tougher.
But I have to speak my mind.

So that hopefully sums up my frustrations except one thing that started in me when i was part of the FB and asked to join the special committee
I had always hoped that these boinc competitions would focus more on being competitive and leveling the playing field for everyone. Early on It became clear to me that I couldn't press Skillz to much because the enormity of his task, getting BG up and running and with the knowledge that any changes required code that they don't have the resources yet to do, so I was silent. But this sport needs to get rid of some old baggage and allow anyone to compete with just their own hardware and tactical skills, in my opinion it's the only way it will attract new members and survive.

My brief vision of nirvana.
\
- Everyone uses their own hardware and that's it.
- No bunkering
- No cloud computing
- Agreed on code of conduct that we're all humans and will follow the prescribed guidelines.

Back to the main point.
Now I have to choose between supporting Ukraine and competing on BG. I chose to break my conviction (Not running russian projects) early in 2023 when I determined it was the only way to stay competitive on BG. Now with the choice of a russian project in the Main Event, it's forcing out my inner struggle that started when i started running russian projects again.

So that's that...
Enjoy the Main "Russian" Event or as it's somehow called "Alpine World Ski Championships"

Respect
SystemViper /steve

Ian&Steve C. wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:53 pm I agree in principle about not running Russian-backed projects. not that I ever ran SiDock before anyway. but the "other" competition has russian projects too for sprints *shrug*. I don't see the same calls to remove the projects from that comp, so it seems unfair to call out BG for that or paint them having it on the list is malicious.

Hiya

The fact is that on both FB and BG, there are a limited number of projects that are suitable for Sprints, as fewer new BOINC projects are being developed that have the sort of infrastructure that is man enough to cope with a large influx of task requests in a short period of time - and some great Sprint projects have since closed (SETI@home, Collatz, etc) or had extended "offline" periods (WCG, etc).

As for the projects chosen by FB that are on the Sprint list: While the selection process for choosing a Sprint on FB is "random" (and not chosen by a computer !!), there is a pre-selection process that takes place, to ensure that the list of the projects put into the random generator is for projects that are suitable.

Where suitable means it is "online" and making tasks available 24/7 as well as ensuring that it is not planning any scheduled maintenance on specific days...or where some other factors need to be taken into account.

And from feedback on the FB forum, it was clear to me (as Sprint admin over there) that there was a lot of support for Ukraine as the war started and continues to this day and as such Russian based projects were deselected from the FB Sprints in 2022.

This will continue during the FB Sprints in 2023 and for as long as Russia continues its so-called "special military operation" and targets civilians, hospitals, schools and energy infrastructure.

regards
Tim

UBT - Timbo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 12:41 pm
And from feedback on the FB forum, it was clear to me (as Sprint admin over there) that there was a lot of support for Ukraine as the war started and continues to this day and as such Russian based projects were deselected from the FB Sprints in 2022.

This will continue during the FB Sprints in 2023 and for as long as Russia continues its so-called "special military operation" and targets civilians, hospitals, schools and energy infrastructure.

The July 21st 2022 sprint was Amicable Numbers, a Russian project.

And the "List of selectable projects" still includes several Russian projects. If they are indeed not going to be selected, then they should be officially removed from that list. just my .02.

Ian&Steve C. wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 5:49 pm

UBT - Timbo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 12:41 pm
And from feedback on the FB forum, it was clear to me (as Sprint admin over there) that there was a lot of support for Ukraine as the war started and continues to this day and as such Russian based projects were deselected from the FB Sprints in 2022.

This will continue during the FB Sprints in 2023 and for as long as Russia continues its so-called "special military operation" and targets civilians, hospitals, schools and energy infrastructure.

The July 21st 2022 sprint was Amicable Numbers, a Russian project.

And the "List of selectable projects" still includes several Russian projects. If they are indeed not going to be selected, then they should be officially removed from that list. just my .02.

Is there a definitive list of all russian projects, that might be helpful to me at least.

thanks
SV

SystemViper, your concern and personal argument is a long one and certainly is understood. However, the same argument (being a personal biased one at that) can be done with several scenarios. For example, I could borg computers without consent of owners. Most would deem that as "cheating" "unethical" "wrong" etc... I choose not to do it because of my own morals. There is no stopping others from doing it. You mention you cannot compete because the event doesn't align with YOUR morals. That may be true. But they are just that... YOURS. I could bankrupt my entire family by purchasing computers for the events. My morals keep me from doing that. So, can I compete as well as others in this community. No. My wallet states that. That is a moral choice and not really a limitation set forth by others. You want to punish the Russian citizens that have no dog in the fight with Ukraine. The USA has done many illegal things in its history as well mind you. Just look into how the USA acquired Hawaii.... Granted that isn't a modern event but the point is there.

The problem with BG's and FB is that the Sprints tend to matter more than the Marathons. This means the events encourage the behaviors that "damage" or bring projects to their knees. But that is where the "fun" is. That also allows individuals that don't want the inconvenience of hosting their own machines to continue to buy success through renting servers. (Don't get me wrong, it is all "fair" as "fair" can actually be.) I don't bring this up because of "fairness" debate but rather to point out it is this instant access to insane processing power that amplifies the problem. Computer processing power has outpaced our network capabilities by a large scale. We push way more data than ever now. Even the best of the best projects can easily be brought down. As fun as these events are, I personally don't think they are really benefiting projects as much as people fantasize.

Coleslaw wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:22 pm However,

Hey ColeSlaw, thanks for the response.
The more I think about this the more I think I should have changed my actions and not even said anything.
Even though I don't agree doesn't make anything right or it anybody else's problem.
I realise it's my inner struggle, I was getting frustrated that I had to keep running more and more of the Russian projects to stay competitive, then seeing SiD as the sprint I guess i knew I needed to make a change.
I am pissed that I can't do both, play in this competition and still get back to what I believe but again that is what makes personal choices personal. interesting who we are and how we react when we look back over time.

thanks and oh yea Fuck Putin.
SV/steve

Ian&Steve C. wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 5:49 pm The July 21st 2022 sprint was Amicable Numbers, a Russian project.

Hi

Believe it or not, but I was (honestly) unaware of this.

However, it does seem that Amicable Numbers is running on servers hosted on a German domain name

PING sech.me (5.9.17.234) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from static.234.17.9.5.clients.your-server.de (5.9.17.234): icmp_seq=1 ttl=38 time=91.0 ms
64 bytes from static.234.17.9.5.clients.your-server.de (5.9.17.234): icmp_seq=2 ttl=38 time=91.0 ms
64 bytes from static.234.17.9.5.clients.your-server.de (5.9.17.234): icmp_seq=3 ttl=38 time=91.0 ms
64 bytes from static.234.17.9.5.clients.your-server.de (5.9.17.234): icmp_seq=4 ttl=38 time=91.0 ms
64 bytes from static.234.17.9.5.clients.your-server.de (5.9.17.234): icmp_seq=5 ttl=38 time=91.1 ms

So, to satisfy my curiousity: where did you find the information about this being a Russian project?

Ian&Steve C. wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 5:49 pm And the "List of selectable projects" still includes several Russian projects. If they are indeed not going to be selected, then they should be officially removed from that list. just my .02.

Indeed, but OTOH, if the war stops and Russia does the decent thing and retreats all of it's military forces back to within it's own borders, then such projects can be considered again, so no need to remove them? (My 2c !!)

Ultimately, it is down to individuals to decide which projects they want to support and donate their resources towards...but just like various sporting events (where Russian sports people have been excluded) then the same should happen with Sprint challenges with various projects being excluded. This might then prevent any "media attention" being used by pro-war Russian sources.

regards
Tim